The Light in Every Thing
Deeper conversation on the mysteries of Christianity with Patrick Kennedy and Jonah Evans, directors of the Seminary of The Christian Community in North America.
In this podcast we engage the great questions of life and do this through a spiritual approach to Christianity made possible through contemplative inquiry and the science of the spirit known as Anthroposophy.
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The Light in Every Thing
The Dragon, the Beast, and the Harvest of God - Episode 3 in the series "Facing Evil"
What is God cultivating in humanity? Why does the field of the world hold both wheat and weeds, saints and beasts, until the end of time?
In this episode, Patrick and Jonah explore the imagery of the harvest in Luke’s Gospel and the Book of Revelation. They reflect on the dragon and the beasts who rise against the offspring of the woman, and on the Lamb who ultimately conquers through sacrificial love. Along the way they ask: What name do we bear? What harvest is our life preparing?
The Light in Every Thing is a podcast of The Seminary of The Christian Community in North America. Learn more about the Seminary and its offerings at our website. This podcast is supported by our growing Patreon community. To learn more, go to www.patreon.com/ccseminary.
Thanks to Elliott Chamberlin who composed our theme music, “Seeking Together,” and the legacy of our original show-notes and patreon producer, Camilla Lake.
¶¶ Morning, Jonah.
Speaker 3:Good morning Patrick. Yeah, we can't sit right next to each other anymore, yeah, but it's still nice to say good morning.
Speaker 2:It's very nice. Exactly, it's very nice. Exactly it's very nice and in some ways you know it's nice. I get to be in my room.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, you get to be in your room.
Speaker 2:I get to be in my room.
Speaker 3:Well Bo, welcome to everyone who are joining us on the light and to the light in everything on the light and to the light in everything, yeah, where two priests speak about the depths and the breaths and the heights of the love of Christ. And we will begin, as we always do, with the Gospel of John in chapter 8. Again, jesus spoke to them saying I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this is our third conversation in a new series that we're taking on called that we've called facing evil, with a particular double-sided question inside of it. First of all, an observation the experience that more and more people can't ignore its presence in the world, in their lives, and are coming back even maybe to being comfortable with the name. I think as I was growing up, evil was almost like a kiddie thing, like an immature thing. It could all somehow be explained psychologically or through other means. And now it feels like people are getting more and more comfortable being able to use that word because it's so accurate for experiences that they're having things they're witnessing and seeing. So the increased meeting of it, encountering of it, people, human beings across the globe being confronted by experiences that they would name as evil. You and I shared some from our earlier life. I'm sure we could spend many episodes also just describing different experiences of it, and maybe they will come as well.
Speaker 2:But the other kind of accompanying question for this series is why and being, who is behind and in and working through this cosmos, this world, this universe, generate a reality in which this evil power also would be present. Why would it be a part of the human story and the human experience to meet this and encounter it and have to face it. What deeper wisdom and purposes in the heart of God are there to allow us to be exposed to such dark powers? You can feel it's a dangerous question and it's a painful question. It also kind of maybe threatens our love of God. Perhaps People can feel like this is where, even if you are their God, perhaps right People can feel like this is where, even if you are their God, if this is the world you've made, maybe I don't want to have a relationship with you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. I remember having a conversation with I was 21. I was 21 working in a halfway house in the ghetto of Sacramento and my boss at the time, his name, was Yusuf Abner. It's not a past I shouldn't say was. It is Yusuf Abner. He's still living and I consider him still a friend. But we had long conversations about God and that's what he came down on. He was also a big student of Nietzsche and he said look, even if God exists, I can't unite with a being that allows evil. For him, that was decisive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think if you haven't come to that confrontation, also with God about the presence of evil, it seems to be a core part of that relationship, how that matures and deepens having to confront God.
Speaker 2:Really, I've had very intense prayerful conversations with God about a couple of things in particular that have been really hard to bear and I was angry and I had to go before God in all of my pain and anger and confront God about what I saw, what was present and that prayer, that long prayer time it was a long wrestling with God transformed me, changed me, changed my relationship with God, matured me in the Spirit, and maybe that's a tale for another time, but it's just that I think it really is part of what we want to serve in these conversations is making space also for people's own reflections and allowing things up, because I would say, like I think these prayers are hidden in people and they're trying to stay up on these positive things and not necessarily let those prayer conversations up which are confronting, difficult and angry, and I just want to, certainly in my heart.
Speaker 2:I'm very curious what you think, but I really believe it's part of the mission of our time to encourage people to have those prayers out, let them out, speak them, let them out, speak them, let them all the way up, and sometimes they might have a lot of tears in them and they might have. Yeah, it might be a little loud, you might need to shout it, but I think it's just such a. It's such an, it's such a truthful wrestling of the heart.
Speaker 3:Amen, and I think there's there's two things there that I just want to emphasize from what you say, because one is it's actually really challenging to confront god and be angry. That's. That's an incredible, uh step in the maturing spirit soul of a human. And I find that in seminary when we're teaching the kind of prayer called lamentation the whole book of lamentations in the Bible but just this way of actually bringing what's really problematic to God is such a challenge. But it's like you said, it seems to mature the spirit in the wrestling itself. And I think that seems to be a signature of at least one of the aspects of why we're meant to confront evil is so that we can become deeper humans.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So the other, in the conversations that we have just had, looked at the way in which the whole human project, the whole creation story, in the perspective of the Bible and Scripture, gives us this picture of the human being being created and beings also of a spiritual nature, but who are more bound to the earth. So we had this episode that looked at the Gospel of Mark and the description of Jesus in the desert being tested and tempted, and they're being found between the wild beasts and the angels, and this perspective of the human being, the truly human, which the truly human is then an image of God according to scripture. So the truly divine also I think that's really key to scripture. So the truly divine also I think that's really key to say that which is truly human is also going to be truly divine.
Speaker 2:This is described in scripture as not only heavenly nor only earthly, but interested in this union of heaven and earth, made of both the dust and the water, as well as the breath of God, for example in chapter two of Genesis. So that was kind of a kind of first core imagination that I think can be so helpful in all of our conversations about facing evil. We will face a temptation and a test to not be earthly, to pull away from the earth, and we will face a test to be only earthly and try to create a kingdom only with earthly, material lawfulnesses. And this theme then pulses throughout the whole of Scripture. And I wanted today, jonah, to jump into the deep end a little bit, which is of course unavoidable if we're going to look at facing evil, and that is the book of Revelation Wonderful To really look at also, particularly chapter 12 and 13, where this dynamic between these two beings is really, you could say, by the rider of the apocalypse, expanded and unfolded to its full cosmic power.
Speaker 2:So what appears is kind of yeah, sorry, go ahead so what appears is kind of yeah, sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 3:Just these two beings, meaning the being of more of the heavens and the being of more of the beasts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the heavenly tempter, or Lucifer, and the earth tempter Satan or, as is known in anthroposophical tradition and the ancient Persian tradition, ahriman. Scripturally we could say the snake and the beast.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And those imaginations, those spiritual imaginations, really then come out in chapters 12 and 13, where we see suddenly a seven-headed dragon in the heavenly world. So there's a dragon being in the heavenly world.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then that dragon tries to do all it can to be successful to counteract the son of the woman, the human child, the seed born of the woman, and it fails and then hands all of its power over to this beast that rises, and then the beast is the one for the rest of the book that takes on the enemy position. So there's this incredible, clear picture of two enemies who are in the highest position. There's a multitude of hosts connected to them, but there are two great enemies the dragon and the beast. Chapter 12, the dragon really gets his full unfolding and then chapter 3, he literally hands his power over to the beast in chapter 13.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and let's not forget this little mention of the beast, also in 11, where he comes from the bottom of the pit. So this underneath element, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so he's coming like not just from the earth, but like from something deep in the depths and like it's sub-earthly.
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Below the surface.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think it's interesting also in just in connection, how you're connecting that, because when you told us about in Mark, chapter one, where the beasts and the angels come, it seems that that word for beast is also what's used in the apocalypse. That's the same word, yeah.
Speaker 2:And it really is the word for animal also. Like you know, in English, right, we used to use beast a little bit more for animal, but we've kind of separated out animals, like the neutral term, and beast is this. When it calls upon, like when a human is drawn into its animal-ness, it's beastly. Actually. I saw just on a side note, have you seen the movie the Wolf of Wall Street?
Speaker 3:Oh, yes, that's a classic.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've never put myself through the whole thing it's I know very intense, but I've enjoyed, you know, seeing some of the clips of it. And what's the guy's name?
Speaker 2:jordan I forget it's, it's leo de jordan yeah, yeah, but the real actor is a real or the real person that they're depicting. It's a real life story. He, he's now out of jail and he he's like a consultant and he does a lot of YouTube stuff now. And he was asked like, was it really, was your life really that wild? He shared. He says it was a thousand times wilder. I believe it. He described one at like his bachelor party and with, like you know, he said, with a thousand prostitutes present or something like that, and he said that people absolutely lost their minds and we were animals.
Speaker 2:That's what he said. It just came out of him. Naturally. It wasn't like how should I describe it to you? It's like man, we were animals and that's just the thing I think people know. It's like when you drop out of your human element, there's a possibility to sink into the beastly nature, a rank of being below who you are called to be.
Speaker 3:I think that I would be surprised if any human can't relate to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love the expression in German too. If you want to just let, let loose and part and have a good party, they say last things out. So let, let, let the, let let the sow out, you know, let the pig, the big pig of yourself that's inside you, hidden in there, let it out. Yeah, yeah well, um, yeah Well. One of the things that really strikes me, though and before we dive into these real detailed descriptions and I want to ask your perspective there, perspective there there's this moment where, after we see these dramatic visions, in chapter 12, the seven-headed dragon that is seeking to devour the child of the heavenly soul, of the woman clothed in the sun, the moon under her feet and the stars above her head, this heavenly human soul who is about to give birth to the child who will rule, with an iron staff, the hope of the world, it fails to devour it. There's all the drama that comes, which we'll look at it fails to fulfill its mission. And then the handing over the power of the beast, and then the dramatic chapter 13, the beast kind of coming into its activities, and then, in chapter 14, we get another vision, and in chapter 14, it's this vision now of the Lamb. So I think this is key In the picture language of the book of Revelation, the vision, the spiritual vision, imagery that John the one on Patmos who's having these visions has, is that Christ Jesus is also seen in the spirit world in an animal form, as the lamb. And so in these kind of astral visions, these spirit visions, it's the lamb between the dragon and the beast, and around this lamb is a community, community, and I really, I just is so excited to look at these things because so there's this beautiful, so picture of hope. Then it opens up, in the middle of all the drama of the lamb, with a very special select group of individuals 144 000, 12 times 12 thousand, 12 times 12, 1000.
Speaker 2:And then comes a word that it's time for a harvest Harvest, verse 15, chapter 14, and another angel came out of the temple. So all of this, of course, is happening in and around the spiritual temple in heaven. Another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud put in your sickle and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe. So suddenly a kind of for me, a core imagination is gifted to us, that the earth is a garden, is a field, that the whole project of planet earth actually has been to grow something and it's time.
Speaker 2:So there's like the annual harvest, but then there's the planetary harvest, like a seed is planted at a certain point in the beginning of planetary existence and now it's grown to full ripeness. It's taken thousands and thousands and thousands of cycles of ripening in the natural world, but the planetary timing, planetary timing, is actually a single season, a single growing season. The harvest of the earth is fully ripe and so he sat on the cloud, swung his sickle across the earth and the earth was reaped. It's just such a moving picture and, I think, a help, and I want to go. I want to go back to another moment in the gospel of Luke and just bring it in again, because it's not just in the book of Revelation but it's in the gospel of Luke. So if you go to I believe let me just double check.
Speaker 2:I think it's chapter the Gospel of Luke. So if you go to, I believe, let me just double check. I think it's chapter 10, verse 22 of the Gospel of Luke. Sorry, it is chapter 10. And in chapter 10, he's sending out his disciples who are now apostles, verse 1,. After this, the Lord appointed 72 others and sent them on ahead of him, two by two, into every town and place where he himself was about to go. So he sends them out in advance of his arrival. And he said to them the harvest is plentiful but the laborers are few. Therefore, pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest. To send out laborers into his harvest.
Speaker 2:Now I promise you, I'm not changing the topic because it could seem like it, but because what happens? Let's just go a little bit further. They go out. Jesus says a few more things. They come back and they're so excited. Verse 17, the 72 returned with joy, saying Jesus says a few more things. They come back and they're so excited. Verse 17, the 72 returned with joy, saying Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name. Even the demons are subject to us in your name. And he said to them I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
Speaker 1:So again, this picture this satanic, this enemy power was a heavenly power that somehow has come down to earth, fallen, and we'll learn later.
Speaker 2:Another picture of how. Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you. Okay, nevertheless, do not rejoice in this that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven. So, jonah, this is my long introduction. I feel like we really needed these pictures. Yeah, what is God trying to grow? Hmm, what is God growing in humanity that is now being harvested in these images? Here at the end in these end time pictures?
Speaker 3:How would you answer that question and how does that maybe relate to the enemy story? Yeah, what a great question and what a wonderful introduction. I mean, I think what comes up in my heart and mind just immediately is God is growing a new creation, and that starts with human beings who are in the image and likeness of the one who rose from the grave. So the harvest is really humanity, it's really human hearts, human beings that have also then cultivated deep virtue, deep morality, born out of this, I could say confrontation with evil, maturing with evil, dying and becoming new through evil, dying and becoming new through evil, everything in likeness of what the Son of man went through.
Speaker 3:There's an interesting parable that we often work with in the seminary and that comes in Matthew, and that's the parable of I'm sure you know it, patrick the wheat and the tares. It's also a story of harvest that Christ speaks to the disciples. But an interesting element I think that's instructive for us, is that it gives this picture of God as a sower and a field owner. And then fruit wheat is meant to grow and be harvested and be harvested. But while he's sleeping, an enemy comes in and sows other seed that looks like wheat but is actually a weed, and that weed starts to grow up and the laborers, the humans, go to the master and say shouldn't we pull up all those weeds so that the good fruit can grow well? And the God character, the master, says no, otherwise you might harm the wheat, the good fruit. Rather, let them grow together. And at the end I'll send my angels, and my angels will divide what is the good harvest from the not good and those good harvests.
Speaker 3:It really implies and points to that those are human beings that must learn to grow and become more fruitful in the presence of the weeds, as opposed to get rid of the evil, and then everything would be good. But that parable really says actually, it's in the presence, like you expressed, it's in the presence of the adversarial forces that the good fruit can mature. So that's an initial response.
Speaker 2:Yes. So the second half of what you shared spoke of a little bit one of the reasons given in Scripture why is God allowing the presence of something that isn't helpful or doesn't seem helpful, seems against us and the wise work of a gardener in the middle of that process that is growing human beings? But you began in the first part to say something which I don't think we can say enough, which is so radical. You said the goal is for a new creation, so the first creation is there to be a womb of a new creation. Is that fair to say, what you said? Beautiful? Yeah, it's like the garden plot that takes in the seed of a new creation and then that seed is human beings who are meant to actually grow up and be sons of God.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Be as Jesus Christ is in this world.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Full images of the divine revelations of the love, truth and virtue of his being.
Speaker 3:Yeah and virtue of his being. Yeah, and I think the imagination you pointed to already, with the woman who in her womb, is growing a new human, and that's what the adversary is interested in and that that new human is protected, that's another picture of this new creation. Hopeful harvest.
Speaker 2:And in both of the descriptions where this harvest, like the Lord of the harvest, sending out the disciples as harvesters, and then the picture in chapter 14 of Revelation where the angel of the reaping angel is coming to reap, there's another similarity which I'm so eager to hear your thoughts about, which I'm so eager to hear your thoughts about. The vision that is described of this community around the lamb is very specific in chapter 14. I don't know if you've got that in front of you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do.
Speaker 2:Then I looked and behold, on Mount Zion stood the lamb and with him 144,000 who had his name and his father's name written on their foreheads. So the question of name, and whose name, seems to be a part of this. If you go back then to Luke, which we just read in chapter 10, right, it was. Don't rejoice that the demons submit to you, rejoice that your names are written in heaven, so their names are in an eternal reality. That's actually the rejoicing, not that they have power over the demons. And then here, who is the community gathered around the lamb? Those who have Jesus's name, the lamb's name and the father's name written where, on their foreheads. So their name in heaven, the divine name, on their foreheads. Talk to me, jonah. What's going?
Speaker 3:on here with these names. Oh, I love it. I love it. Well, I mean, you know, I think it's very important that we don't merely think of a name as a label, some sort of academic label like literally just words, but that a name in in imagination language, in spiritual, esoteric language, which the Bible, especially the Apocalypse, uses, it points to the essential nature of a being which has an activity. For example, jesus says I am a way, I am a truth, I am a life. It's not just a static thing, but a name, a spiritual name, reveals a life, an active reality of a self. And I'll just tell a little anecdote about an experience I had that I think is helpful. During COVID time it was very tentative whether or not you could have a funeral.
Speaker 3:I don't know if anyone remembers that, but yeah it was almost, it was basically illegal to have to do some of the things that we do. And yet we, for various reasons, we were able to have this funeral on this wake in our vigil chapel, our little chapel, in the church where one of our beloved members was laid out after she had crossed, and I had, just the day before, given her the last anointing. And for those of our friends who don't know about the last anointing, this sacrament that blesses and strengthens the transition into death of the human spirit and soul, the last anointing ritually anoints the forehead with three crosses, with oil, all of oil that has been consecrated. And, as a reminder, the mount, the hill upon which our Lord was crucified, is called Golgotha, which means the place of the skull. The last anointing you have a kind of imagination of here's the Mount of Golgotha, and you have, you place three, you inscribe three crosses, and I did that to our beloved one.
Speaker 3:And then the next day we laid her out and as I walked in, as I walked in, I had never had that experience so clearly I could see, with a kind of etheric vision, a kind of light form on her forehead of three crosses and for some reason at that moment it became for me very clear what this name of God on our forehead actually means, and it has everything to do with the specific activity, the nature of activity of God, which the skull and the three crosses are a symbol, imaginative symbol of meaning, the activity of sacrificial love, yeah, of dying for the life of others, in total offering.
Speaker 3:That not only is a morally good deed, but it's a generative deed. That sacrifice actually creates something, a new, a new creation. So that's for me, in my experience, that's when it became very clear to me what is this name of god that's sealed on our foreheads and and that's then what kind of unites and unites us with God and protects us from, from the adversary. That's a big, but that was, that was very transformational for me to have that experience and feel the profundity also of what we're doing when we give the last anointing.
Speaker 2:Yes, inscribing the name of the Lamb on the forehead of a beloved, exactly In the Christos, which is the anointing, that's what makes us a Christ. Oh, beautiful, nice. Christ means anointed one. Christ means the anointed one. We are anointed with his name. It's just so unendingly beautiful with his name. It's just so unendingly beautiful that actually, the culmination of one's earthly life is, at the moment of death, to receive Golgotha as an anointing on your Golgotha, on your place of the skull, right on your Golgotha, on your place of the skull.
Speaker 2:Right, so I've never yeah and there's so many things connected to this, of course, but it's really powerful. Sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 3:Well, I just it's a new. I've never since you just said that I've never thought of this before but in a way, that's like the angels or the disciples harvesting, so in a way, in a way, through anointing and enlivening a human being in the image and likeness of the lamb, we're also trying to harvest that reality, so to speak, which is just connected to your, your main theme this morning yeah, yeah, right, I mean, that's why the, the angel of death, is called the reaper too, right?
Speaker 2:I mean that the old picture, which just became some kind of weird horror picture in the 20th century, is the image of the harvester. Everyone's afraid of this figure with the blade, but it's only if you're attached to being stuck in the ground. Right but that blade is just the power that releases you actually into harvest, being gathered in for the future to be a new planting. So, then, every human being who is bearing that name is now a ripened fruit from the earth harvest.
Speaker 3:And in the context of facing evil, it's also just very interesting to notice, when you read the book of Revelation, that this seal, this name of the Lamb that one can allow and actively receive, is the protection against the beast in the end.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's so striking because the lamb is the least powerful, least aggressive, most innocent, most vulnerable being being. So this imagination in the animal sphere of deep purity, this pure lamb and this pure joy, if you've ever seen a bouncing lamb. And then this lamb that can be slain can be apparently defeated by the powers that are arrayed against it and through its being wounded and killed by the powers of this world, actually what? The life that's hidden inside it is released and it bleeds out into this world and offers itself, as you said, this power of sacrificial love. And so the one thing that the enemies cannot defeat is the lamb. Anytime we try to be more beastly and thereby defeat the beast, to be more clever and have more esoteric wisdom, like the snake, all of that causes us actually ultimately to lose. And the secret of actually passing through the test facing these enemies is this union with the power that they cannot defeat, this vulnerable, sacrificial, self-giving love the Lamb. And so there we have a kind of triple, a kind of trinity, in verse 1 of chapter 14.
Speaker 2:Then I looked and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb. So there's the Lamb, and with Him 144,000 who had His name. So there's a human, and then they had the name of the Lamb on their forehead, and that is the name of the Father as well. So the Lamb reveals the greatest divinity behind all things the Father. So the Father God, the Son God. And the third element of this trinity is actually God in humanity, or the Holy Spirit in us, and so you can see the path through the enemies that we face will have to do something with how our own selves, our own names, become a part of the essential name of the land, who is an expression of the Father. Thank you for that really beautiful story. Also, Jonah, with the anointing. I feel like that's somehow answering the other question that's in the background for everybody what will protect me?
Speaker 1:What is?
Speaker 2:going to protect us? Sure, okay, god is going to make a circumstance where we have to face evil, but what will be the protection that we can find? And this becoming anointed ones, with Golgotha, the sacrificial power of love in the face of evil and hatred and attack for the world, for those, for human beings, and being revelations of the Father, like Jesus, is being revelations of God, so connecting our essential being with the essential being of the divinity. I feel like that was the other thought, that you gave us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, beautiful. And we see, even in the saints in the story of the apocalypse, or the woman who has to flee from the dragon, or even the two witnesses that have to be defeated by the beast and then raised again by the breath of God in chapter 11, we see this protection is not somehow getting rid of the struggle and the adversary and the difficulty in the midst of the adversary's oppressive power, being willing to offer and forgive and love anyway and allow the grace of God to give new life. That is protecting. You know, just think of Martin Luther King or numerous human beings who've demonstrated this name.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's so beautiful. So, if I'm tracking this on the question of what is it that God is growing in human beings, if planet Earth is this great field in which we are planted in order to be harvested at the end of planetary existence, what is it that is the plant that God is growing? It would seem to be beings who are themselves an I am, who have come into their individuality, but who have an opportunity to be good and to be a revelation of goodness that must grow in the opportunity to be evil. Sure, there is no way in which the power of goodness can come into being in the cosmos unless it face the opportunity and be within a field of the option of evil and be within a field of the option of evil.
Speaker 3:So in this drama of the book of Revelation, where human beings are being prepared to become the new creation, there's this possibility of receiving the name of God, this sacrificial love, but there's also the picture that human beings can receive the name of the beast, the mark of the beast. So it depends on what we worship, what we unite ourselves with, that determines whether or not the good endures. And I just think that's the drama, that's the drama of this battle with evil. It's what activity do we worship, what name do we worship?
Speaker 2:that will be then imprinted on us and shape us into a destiny. Such a beautiful place to end. To really bring that back to how our religious activity, our daily, weekly, yearly work to unite ourselves with a being greater than ourselves, the being we worship, is the ripening process that will lead to a harvest and will show us whatever name is imprinted upon us, what do you?
Speaker 3:love yeah. Who do you love, yeah, which? Who do you serve? Who do you unite yourself with?
Speaker 2:This is really powerful. Thank you, Jonah, so much for this conversation. Feels like a really good, strong step in our work.
Speaker 3:Thank you, Patrick. I look forward to next week ©.
Speaker 1:BF-WATCH TV 2021. ¶¶ © transcript Emily Beynon.